Stuggling Soprano
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phil mccann
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am
putting it into perspective
I have read the rest of this thread having already replied once but I notice a lot of , what I call "credit card " advice IE... speculation about what type of cornet you have and what you should spend money on to make you better.... well.. its down to making something of what you have..if you are cut out to be a soprano cornet player then you will be able to play good soprano cornet on any make of instrument that your band supplies you with... OK so it might sound ropey if you have a bad cornet but if you are a good sop player then everyone will recognise that you are and that a decent instrument will help you.. but only after you have established that you can play sop... i had an old yamaha with the tuning slide instead of a shank and it was awfull..but the band recognised that \i was a good sop player and needed a good cornet..they bought me a Getson long model (which actually looks bigger than a Bflat cornet) then when we got a lottery grant they bought me a Shilke....which I considered to be very over rated and went back to the getson...eventually I bought myself a very old Besson and it was the best ever ! it cost me a mere £20 ... what I am trying to say is...if you are struggling in the early stages then no amount of money spent on fancy cornets and expensive dennis wicks will do any good at all...its a case of getting as good as you can get on what you have ..THEN spending money on something that does you justice as a good player !
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phil mccann
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am
Re: Sacked :-(
if i was in a band with that kind of attitude and politics then I would just leave and join another band !tigger908 wrote:Friday night the comittee of the band approached me and said i was to be given the soprano seat. There was another guy trying out with me who had more experiance but I was favoured as he has other comittments and is about to join the army.
Two players in the band who give the other bloke a lift to band stromed out after rehursal and contacted the acting chairman to say they'd quit if the other bloke wasn't signed on soprano.
Ive been asked to step aside, but Im keeping a soprano cornet which I intend to play for the jounior band I help out. I am expected to go back to playing second cornet, but Ive done that for 11 years and there's not really a seat there for me to go back to. Becides Ive spent £100 in mouthpeices to get the right one and practiced for more hours than I care to even concider!
Several other players offered to resign so that I could be reinstated but I think that would only make things worse. Though Id have given anything to see their faces when 5 key players including the solo corent offered their resignations on my behalf.
The really sad part of all this is that the comittee is now defunct, if players can hold the band to ransom like this then what is its function. It has no power to make decisions.
Stabbed in the back,
Glenn
Ex Soprano Corent
YWB
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phil mccann
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am
Re: Sacked :-(
if i was in a band with that kind of attitude and politics then I would just leave and join another band !tigger908 wrote:Friday night the comittee of the band approached me and said i was to be given the soprano seat. There was another guy trying out with me who had more experiance but I was favoured as he has other comittments and is about to join the army.
Two players in the band who give the other bloke a lift to band stromed out after rehursal and contacted the acting chairman to say they'd quit if the other bloke wasn't signed on soprano.
Ive been asked to step aside, but Im keeping a soprano cornet which I intend to play for the jounior band I help out. I am expected to go back to playing second cornet, but Ive done that for 11 years and there's not really a seat there for me to go back to. Becides Ive spent £100 in mouthpeices to get the right one and practiced for more hours than I care to even concider!
Several other players offered to resign so that I could be reinstated but I think that would only make things worse. Though Id have given anything to see their faces when 5 key players including the solo corent offered their resignations on my behalf.
The really sad part of all this is that the comittee is now defunct, if players can hold the band to ransom like this then what is its function. It has no power to make decisions.
Stabbed in the back,
Glenn
Ex Soprano Corent
YWB
Re: Stuggling Soprano
Interesting thread this one !
I have ben on sop for just over 40 years and played from the top to the murky depths so have a wealth of experience of the beast. The reason I ended up on sop at the age of 9 in a 2nd section band ( when there was only 4 sections ) was I went to the toilet and when I came back to take my seat - 2nd 2nd cornet ! having started playing at the age of 7 - it had been decided that as the sop player had just upped and left another guy in the band decided he would " take me on and see how it goes ". Well the upshot was a contest on Snowdon Fantasy in 10 weeks.
My basic instructions were " well its just like a cornet but a third higher" and other pearls of wisdom such as " its designed to play the high notes" , " just needs a bit of practice" etc etc ! The instrument was on old converted from high pitch Hawkes ( younger players will not understand this probably and will have no idea how dire the old instruments were ) and the mouthpiece of choice for sop players in those days ? a cosy cup 1/2 . The other options were a Besson cushion rim or if you were lucky and knew someone in the Sally Army you might be able to get one of their mouthpieces. Failing that you could look through the old shoe box that every band room seemed to have full of old mouthpieces and other detrious. Mr Wick was yet to foist his "S" on us at this stage. Well, after gasping my way through Snowdon Fantasy I was presented with a frosted Imperial - second hand of course. After about a year on this gem of an instrument with the cosy cup 1/2 my father got me one of the new Dennis Wick "S" mouthpieces and what a revelation this was. Then at the tender age of 13 I had my first new sop a Yamaha YCR something or other and it came with a Yamaha mouthpiece - another quantum leap in design. This was becoming easier !
I then went through a variety of sops Getzen, Bach, more Yamaha's Eb trumpets from Getzen Yamaha and Selmer and more frosted Imperials and even a Besson of the same vintage as the Imperials, and continued with the Yamaha mouthpiece. Then it happened, I was presented with probably the worst sop ever known to mankind a Sovreign ! you know the one - the one with the tuning slide before the bell and no matter what mouthpiece it had it was still crap, this instrument laughed in the face of every alternative valve combination.
Now we move to the era of Schilke, Xeno et al, and not all of them are what they would have you believe they should be despite the eye watering price.
So what mouthpiece do I use now then ? I made it myself ! As an engineer and a load of trial and error and swarf I got it to what I think is right about 20 years ago and I have stuck with it. However over the years I have made minor changes to it to allow for teeth, gum and lip ageing. I have compared it to others of the modern ilk and still see no reason to change. Mouthpiece design has come along way since my early years on the old cosy cup. What have I learned and what advice could I give ? Remember that all the mouthpieces you can buy are a standard off the shelf compromise. There is a danger of them becoming fashionable because so and so plays on one of these etc. But is the mouthpiece that so and so plays on what you are actually buying or is it just the off the shelf compromise ? I will leave you to ponder that one.
The options, throw loads of money at the trade stands in a vain hope that you will get "the one" spend more time with the one you are comfortable with and look at your technique, have a serious look at design and your mouth, lips and teeth shape and get one made. There is no short cut and no firm answers. I do have a few blunt answers but will keep those to myself but bear in mind a sop is like a dog ! Its for life not just for Christmas or a trend.
Would I play anything else ? NEVER
I have ben on sop for just over 40 years and played from the top to the murky depths so have a wealth of experience of the beast. The reason I ended up on sop at the age of 9 in a 2nd section band ( when there was only 4 sections ) was I went to the toilet and when I came back to take my seat - 2nd 2nd cornet ! having started playing at the age of 7 - it had been decided that as the sop player had just upped and left another guy in the band decided he would " take me on and see how it goes ". Well the upshot was a contest on Snowdon Fantasy in 10 weeks.
My basic instructions were " well its just like a cornet but a third higher" and other pearls of wisdom such as " its designed to play the high notes" , " just needs a bit of practice" etc etc ! The instrument was on old converted from high pitch Hawkes ( younger players will not understand this probably and will have no idea how dire the old instruments were ) and the mouthpiece of choice for sop players in those days ? a cosy cup 1/2 . The other options were a Besson cushion rim or if you were lucky and knew someone in the Sally Army you might be able to get one of their mouthpieces. Failing that you could look through the old shoe box that every band room seemed to have full of old mouthpieces and other detrious. Mr Wick was yet to foist his "S" on us at this stage. Well, after gasping my way through Snowdon Fantasy I was presented with a frosted Imperial - second hand of course. After about a year on this gem of an instrument with the cosy cup 1/2 my father got me one of the new Dennis Wick "S" mouthpieces and what a revelation this was. Then at the tender age of 13 I had my first new sop a Yamaha YCR something or other and it came with a Yamaha mouthpiece - another quantum leap in design. This was becoming easier !
I then went through a variety of sops Getzen, Bach, more Yamaha's Eb trumpets from Getzen Yamaha and Selmer and more frosted Imperials and even a Besson of the same vintage as the Imperials, and continued with the Yamaha mouthpiece. Then it happened, I was presented with probably the worst sop ever known to mankind a Sovreign ! you know the one - the one with the tuning slide before the bell and no matter what mouthpiece it had it was still crap, this instrument laughed in the face of every alternative valve combination.
Now we move to the era of Schilke, Xeno et al, and not all of them are what they would have you believe they should be despite the eye watering price.
So what mouthpiece do I use now then ? I made it myself ! As an engineer and a load of trial and error and swarf I got it to what I think is right about 20 years ago and I have stuck with it. However over the years I have made minor changes to it to allow for teeth, gum and lip ageing. I have compared it to others of the modern ilk and still see no reason to change. Mouthpiece design has come along way since my early years on the old cosy cup. What have I learned and what advice could I give ? Remember that all the mouthpieces you can buy are a standard off the shelf compromise. There is a danger of them becoming fashionable because so and so plays on one of these etc. But is the mouthpiece that so and so plays on what you are actually buying or is it just the off the shelf compromise ? I will leave you to ponder that one.
The options, throw loads of money at the trade stands in a vain hope that you will get "the one" spend more time with the one you are comfortable with and look at your technique, have a serious look at design and your mouth, lips and teeth shape and get one made. There is no short cut and no firm answers. I do have a few blunt answers but will keep those to myself but bear in mind a sop is like a dog ! Its for life not just for Christmas or a trend.
Would I play anything else ? NEVER
Re: Stuggling Soprano
Wow, I started this thread what seems like a lifetime ago. I'm still playing, but after 10 years on Sop I was asked to play solo cornet for a few contests (the last two) so I suppose I'm technically no longer the sop player.
After reading a huge amount about mouthpieces etc. and trying a huge number (Wick 5b & S, Bach, E, EW, D, DW, C, CW, Yamaha sop mouthpiece, Curtious sop mouthpiece, Shilke 14A4x) the conclusion I've come to is that you need one which suits your face and where you are as a player. Lots of people tried to help when I first started, their comments were based on what worked for them and in some cases it helped. Though I'll be honest, in some cases what worked for them was never going to work for me. Playing a bach E for example would require me to have extensive dental work and probably plastic surgery.
I ended up playing on a 7CW, then a Shilke 14A4x on reflection I should probably have gone for the 14A4a which to quote the manufacturer its" tight “a” backbore allows a player a strong upper register without sacrificing tonal production." I think the x is more for the professional player or someone who has serious time to commit.
I also discovered something about practice, well actually quite a lot. Just playing your parts, or some random notes is fine but if you want to get much better you need structured practice. Just like you warm up and cool down in the gym you need to start with a load of warm up exercises (I do lip slurs - http://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cg ... ext=theses) and get your face in shape. It is possible to damage your lip, especially on soprano. I think I came close to this and ended up doing loads of simple exercises for a few weeks to build back up. Read here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embouchure_collapse - I was sceptical but rest and a some of the methods people suggested for recovery seemed to help. Seemed to me if you could pull a muscle in your arm, why not your mouth?
I'm hoping to have another go at soprano at some point.
Tiggs.
After reading a huge amount about mouthpieces etc. and trying a huge number (Wick 5b & S, Bach, E, EW, D, DW, C, CW, Yamaha sop mouthpiece, Curtious sop mouthpiece, Shilke 14A4x) the conclusion I've come to is that you need one which suits your face and where you are as a player. Lots of people tried to help when I first started, their comments were based on what worked for them and in some cases it helped. Though I'll be honest, in some cases what worked for them was never going to work for me. Playing a bach E for example would require me to have extensive dental work and probably plastic surgery.
I ended up playing on a 7CW, then a Shilke 14A4x on reflection I should probably have gone for the 14A4a which to quote the manufacturer its" tight “a” backbore allows a player a strong upper register without sacrificing tonal production." I think the x is more for the professional player or someone who has serious time to commit.
I also discovered something about practice, well actually quite a lot. Just playing your parts, or some random notes is fine but if you want to get much better you need structured practice. Just like you warm up and cool down in the gym you need to start with a load of warm up exercises (I do lip slurs - http://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cg ... ext=theses) and get your face in shape. It is possible to damage your lip, especially on soprano. I think I came close to this and ended up doing loads of simple exercises for a few weeks to build back up. Read here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embouchure_collapse - I was sceptical but rest and a some of the methods people suggested for recovery seemed to help. Seemed to me if you could pull a muscle in your arm, why not your mouth?
I'm hoping to have another go at soprano at some point.
Tiggs.