I've played on a Yamaha Sop and hated it, very hard to blow imho.
At the moment I play on a Schilke Sop which I totally love and I use a Bach 7EW which seems to get me by quite well most of the time.
The Bach 7EW is a comfortable mouthpiece for me, it's nice and shallow for better endurance and accuarcy in the upper octave it has a wide diameter which allows more of the lip to vibrate so u get a nice big sound and it has a nice wide cusioned rim for those of us who play high notes with some pressure.
The problem with the Bach mouthpiece, have found is you need to play properly, it doesn't allow you to use bad technique, if you do, it comes straight out the other end big style.
For me at the moment the 7EW is a great Sop mouthpiece, I have had instruction for a very good sop player to use a 7C, and although it doesn't really have the depth for the really high notes, it's design apparently allows the air to flow through without it becoming restricted.
Once I get my hands on a 7C, I'll let you know how well it works for me.
Also, different manufactuers have different diameter sizes and rim shapes and sizes, I have been told that it's best to see what manufacturer makes the design of mouthpiece (backbore, rim and diameter stats) and see what fit's you particular embouchre, it's then simply a case of picking the correct model.
Stuggling Soprano
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James McFadyen
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:21 pm
- Contact:
) so I bought a 7DW and a 7CW after trying both I found that the 7DW offered the best compromise between sound and ease of getting high notes. Two years after I started this topic, I'm still playing soprano! More importantly Ive just received a best soloist award in the local compertition my first ever!! My acheivments in moving from back row cornet to soprano and getting a soloist prize in 2 years have also been recognised by the band and I was given a presentation at the bands xmas party.
Many thanks to all who offered their adivice on these pages and to all those third cornets who dream of playing soprano. Go for it!!! You have nothing to loose but your mind (and possibly bladder control :-p)
Many thanks to all who offered their adivice on these pages and to all those third cornets who dream of playing soprano. Go for it!!! You have nothing to loose but your mind (and possibly bladder control :-p)
pic a mouthpiece and get on with it.
you whent from 2nd cornet to sop?
that seems a leap!
new instrument takes time to get used to. regular practice.
pic a mouthpiece and get on with it.
that seems a leap!
new instrument takes time to get used to. regular practice.
pic a mouthpiece and get on with it.
J.Penton
www.battletownband.com
www.battletownband.com
I'm no expert sop player, but Nigel's original reply was right. It will take months, possibly years to 'get used' to a soprano cornet, particularly as in this case, you've come off 2nd cornet. There's the development of the high register to consider (whilst not losing any ability in the low register Too many soprano parts are written with the ethos 'the soprano cornet is only there to play high all the time', with the result that a lot of sop parts and as a result a lot of players, limit what is frequently an expensive musical instrument to a range of little more than an octave. What a waste!)
Of course, you may already have a good high register (I'm not presuming anything) but as for mouthpiece advice, I feel it's impossible to answer questions on that subject without seeing the shape of ones mouth, teeth, embouchure etc. What works for one player will be a complete waste on another as our mouth shapes and dental builds differ from person to person.
Whatever, good luck in your continuing strive on sop!
Of course, you may already have a good high register (I'm not presuming anything) but as for mouthpiece advice, I feel it's impossible to answer questions on that subject without seeing the shape of ones mouth, teeth, embouchure etc. What works for one player will be a complete waste on another as our mouth shapes and dental builds differ from person to person.
Whatever, good luck in your continuing strive on sop!
Conductor, Arran Brass. Brass Band tutor for the Workers' Music Association Summer School. Founder and director, Arran Brass Monkeys Quintet.
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gcb_trombone
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:14 pm
- Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
Interesting discussion - for anyone moving onto Sop I think there's always a bunch of folks who know all the answers. Some of them never touched a sop for more than a few minutes in their lives before offering it though. Apologies that I've written such a long response. Hopefully you'll stick with it:)
Some of the greatest Sop players today (Roberts, Wycherley etc.) found the answers to some of the important playing issues early in their lives. Some of these are technique, some are equipment related. These answers worked for them and they must have also worked very hard to play as they do today - in spite of 'myths' about these people never practising etc.
I know Peter Roberts was given a mouthpiece when he started playing on Sop and never swapped in his entire career! That's not to say that just sticking with what you get is the answer - it has to 'fit' both you and the instrument.
If I'm not mistaken Wych plays on the same (Bach 17C).
Many would frown at the idea of using a 17C - it's too small, too shallow, etc. but the point is, it worked for these two great players. I don't hear anyone saying that either of these players have a tone that doesn't blend well with the principal cornet!
I tried a current model 17C - what a disgusting noise it made - brittle, zero tone quality. I tried the Wick S - nicer tone, but would not cut through - deep, large throat...
Extremes? I played Sop on a Bach 1 for a while (when much younger) no 'security' and after sticking to that for long enough to convince the 'just stick with one mouthpiece' brigade, decided it was time to go back on Bb. I've since learned that Peter Roberts uses a Mount Vernon 17C - that is a very different shape to the modern 17C (shallower, wider cup).
Looking at what these great players use is a useful guide. Listening to Trumpet players advice on web forums is less useful - even knowing that some of these may have C/D/Eb/Picc Trumpet experience, does not necessarily make that advice useful for Sop.
I played Trumpet/Cornet for 30 years - everything I thought I learned in certain areas of technique and equipment (in Orchestras, Big Bands, Brass bands) was not of much relevance to Sop.
Sop exposes any flaws in your technique - in fact it magnifies them. It's much more tricky to play than an Eb Trumpet - just consider the repertoire and expectations. Historically, that's how the Schilke sop came about - an attempt by Howard Snell when playing with bands to play an Eb Trumpet at a contest in the '70s (mainly because he was disgusted by the poor quality of Sops) that got "jumped on" and lead him to convince Schilke that there was a need for a decent Sop.
Fact - the Sop is not a Bb Cornet and doesn't blow like one. I'm old enough to remember the days before Medium/Large Bore Bb cornets became the 'norm' - and the struggle some players had with their high register with that change - so moving to Sop must be accepted as some magnitude of change beyond that. First time a blew a Schilke sop in the 80's I commented it was 'like an old gaspipe' the dealer wasn't too pleased. I've seen other comments saying that it's like blowing into a pile of sandbags.
Fact - it's damned difficult to play consistently - you can be on the crest of a wave and next thing down in the doldrums. You have (unless you are superman) to look after your lip for the important bits. Ignore this at your peril!
Fact - some notes that sound the same pitch as Bb cornet are more difficult (easier to split, miss altogether, or make a weird mess of) on Sop.
Fact - sometimes the Sop player gets the blame for the entire front row having poor intonation - top A's and B's on the Bb (E and F# on sop) are usual culprits. I've proven this with a tuning meter.
Fact - if it aint working, no amount of 'punishment' is going to make it work. It's not a case of 'try harder' or 'come on, it's only an E!' Sometimes a sop player has bashed the hell out of his or her lip up in the top register and just needs consideration and time to recover some 'lip'.
Playing sop is a frustrating experience - even the best are purported to have come from 'the school of hard knocks' (If anyone wonders where this school is located, there's one in every bandroom)
From my own 'journey' I can offer some advice...
Sometimes we try small changes when big bold moves are required - just imagine any player from any other section in the band moving from Bb to Eb instruments - Euphonium to Solo Horn maybe? Imagine that player trying to do so with their Euph mouthpiece? Isn't that where people start from when they 'land' on Sop? Most Sop players start by trying to use their Wick 3 or moving to a Wick S (which is more or less a Wick 5). I ended up with some mouthpieces that seemed to work. None ideal - always a comprimise in some area. I tried to identify what the ones that worked best had in common.
One much neglected area of discussion on any mouthpiece 'chat' is, I believe, responsible for many of the problems sop players have. I tried bigger rim diameters, different cup depths, wider rims, smaller throat, bigger throat - you name it...
Sops suffer poor intonation - that's just the way it is isn't it? Everyone expects the sop to play out of tune.
Why? - sops play out of tune for a number of reasons - some to do with the player admittedly, but I believe mainly that this is due to playing on Bb cornet mouthpieces, or more specifically, mouthpieces with Backbores that are designed for Bb cornet. The 1st space F and 2nd line G are flat. Top line F is sharp. G above stave is sharp. F# is sometimes better in tune with 2/3...
The Yamaha Sops play better in tune that do "Schilke" type sops, but don't have the sparkle. Swapping to a Yammi was not the answer I wanted. It is more like a Bb cornet to play than the Schilke though.
Testing out the mouthpieces that worked best for Schilke type sops I found they had one thing in common - smaller tighter backbores - the shape of the section that leads from the throat (the hole of the mouthpiece) to the instrument. Playing on a smaller backbore is not usually recommended on Bb Cornet/Trumpet for all the opposite reasons - getting the volume of sound and tuning issues. On Sop it seems to have made playing no quieter, in fact it gives the security that makes playing a bit louder more comfortable. Endurance is much better (you're not blowing your lip away) and you get some 'resistance' and more 'feel'.
Try popping into a Warburton dealer (Phil Parker's near Euston Station is very helpful) Don't stick to the larger size backbores - try the 5's and below. It may just be the answer to a prayer...
Some of the greatest Sop players today (Roberts, Wycherley etc.) found the answers to some of the important playing issues early in their lives. Some of these are technique, some are equipment related. These answers worked for them and they must have also worked very hard to play as they do today - in spite of 'myths' about these people never practising etc.
I know Peter Roberts was given a mouthpiece when he started playing on Sop and never swapped in his entire career! That's not to say that just sticking with what you get is the answer - it has to 'fit' both you and the instrument.
If I'm not mistaken Wych plays on the same (Bach 17C).
Many would frown at the idea of using a 17C - it's too small, too shallow, etc. but the point is, it worked for these two great players. I don't hear anyone saying that either of these players have a tone that doesn't blend well with the principal cornet!
I tried a current model 17C - what a disgusting noise it made - brittle, zero tone quality. I tried the Wick S - nicer tone, but would not cut through - deep, large throat...
Extremes? I played Sop on a Bach 1 for a while (when much younger) no 'security' and after sticking to that for long enough to convince the 'just stick with one mouthpiece' brigade, decided it was time to go back on Bb. I've since learned that Peter Roberts uses a Mount Vernon 17C - that is a very different shape to the modern 17C (shallower, wider cup).
Looking at what these great players use is a useful guide. Listening to Trumpet players advice on web forums is less useful - even knowing that some of these may have C/D/Eb/Picc Trumpet experience, does not necessarily make that advice useful for Sop.
I played Trumpet/Cornet for 30 years - everything I thought I learned in certain areas of technique and equipment (in Orchestras, Big Bands, Brass bands) was not of much relevance to Sop.
Sop exposes any flaws in your technique - in fact it magnifies them. It's much more tricky to play than an Eb Trumpet - just consider the repertoire and expectations. Historically, that's how the Schilke sop came about - an attempt by Howard Snell when playing with bands to play an Eb Trumpet at a contest in the '70s (mainly because he was disgusted by the poor quality of Sops) that got "jumped on" and lead him to convince Schilke that there was a need for a decent Sop.
Fact - the Sop is not a Bb Cornet and doesn't blow like one. I'm old enough to remember the days before Medium/Large Bore Bb cornets became the 'norm' - and the struggle some players had with their high register with that change - so moving to Sop must be accepted as some magnitude of change beyond that. First time a blew a Schilke sop in the 80's I commented it was 'like an old gaspipe' the dealer wasn't too pleased. I've seen other comments saying that it's like blowing into a pile of sandbags.
Fact - it's damned difficult to play consistently - you can be on the crest of a wave and next thing down in the doldrums. You have (unless you are superman) to look after your lip for the important bits. Ignore this at your peril!
Fact - some notes that sound the same pitch as Bb cornet are more difficult (easier to split, miss altogether, or make a weird mess of) on Sop.
Fact - sometimes the Sop player gets the blame for the entire front row having poor intonation - top A's and B's on the Bb (E and F# on sop) are usual culprits. I've proven this with a tuning meter.
Fact - if it aint working, no amount of 'punishment' is going to make it work. It's not a case of 'try harder' or 'come on, it's only an E!' Sometimes a sop player has bashed the hell out of his or her lip up in the top register and just needs consideration and time to recover some 'lip'.
Playing sop is a frustrating experience - even the best are purported to have come from 'the school of hard knocks' (If anyone wonders where this school is located, there's one in every bandroom)
From my own 'journey' I can offer some advice...
Sometimes we try small changes when big bold moves are required - just imagine any player from any other section in the band moving from Bb to Eb instruments - Euphonium to Solo Horn maybe? Imagine that player trying to do so with their Euph mouthpiece? Isn't that where people start from when they 'land' on Sop? Most Sop players start by trying to use their Wick 3 or moving to a Wick S (which is more or less a Wick 5). I ended up with some mouthpieces that seemed to work. None ideal - always a comprimise in some area. I tried to identify what the ones that worked best had in common.
One much neglected area of discussion on any mouthpiece 'chat' is, I believe, responsible for many of the problems sop players have. I tried bigger rim diameters, different cup depths, wider rims, smaller throat, bigger throat - you name it...
Sops suffer poor intonation - that's just the way it is isn't it? Everyone expects the sop to play out of tune.
Why? - sops play out of tune for a number of reasons - some to do with the player admittedly, but I believe mainly that this is due to playing on Bb cornet mouthpieces, or more specifically, mouthpieces with Backbores that are designed for Bb cornet. The 1st space F and 2nd line G are flat. Top line F is sharp. G above stave is sharp. F# is sometimes better in tune with 2/3...
The Yamaha Sops play better in tune that do "Schilke" type sops, but don't have the sparkle. Swapping to a Yammi was not the answer I wanted. It is more like a Bb cornet to play than the Schilke though.
Testing out the mouthpieces that worked best for Schilke type sops I found they had one thing in common - smaller tighter backbores - the shape of the section that leads from the throat (the hole of the mouthpiece) to the instrument. Playing on a smaller backbore is not usually recommended on Bb Cornet/Trumpet for all the opposite reasons - getting the volume of sound and tuning issues. On Sop it seems to have made playing no quieter, in fact it gives the security that makes playing a bit louder more comfortable. Endurance is much better (you're not blowing your lip away) and you get some 'resistance' and more 'feel'.
Try popping into a Warburton dealer (Phil Parker's near Euston Station is very helpful) Don't stick to the larger size backbores - try the 5's and below. It may just be the answer to a prayer...
Working on it
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James McFadyen
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:21 pm
- Contact:
I've just been searching on this forum and come across this old post and thought I'd update my own findings.
Well, I now play on a Yamaha, which is not too bad, maybe I was a bit biased before, playing a Schilke - there is no comparison, really!
As for the Yamaha not having sparkle, well, I never have this trouble - my sop tone has plenty of sparkle, especially on a top f and f# - where the sop seams to soar!
I have been doing a lot out of the Arban recently and it's had a profound effect on my performance capabilities.
In reply to 3rd/2nd cornet players jumping to sop - it isn't impossibile to believe this, however, playing sop is much more than being able to high notes well. Sop players are a different breed of player, you're either a Sop player or not. I took a break from sop several years ago, playing Rep and when I eventually went back to Sop, it took me forever to build up my sop playing again, about 18 months or so! So never again - it's Sop or nothing for me!
I'm as mad as a brush (as Naomi will testify to) and that's the essence of any Soprano player!
Any comments.....?
Well, I now play on a Yamaha, which is not too bad, maybe I was a bit biased before, playing a Schilke - there is no comparison, really!
As for the Yamaha not having sparkle, well, I never have this trouble - my sop tone has plenty of sparkle, especially on a top f and f# - where the sop seams to soar!
I have been doing a lot out of the Arban recently and it's had a profound effect on my performance capabilities.
In reply to 3rd/2nd cornet players jumping to sop - it isn't impossibile to believe this, however, playing sop is much more than being able to high notes well. Sop players are a different breed of player, you're either a Sop player or not. I took a break from sop several years ago, playing Rep and when I eventually went back to Sop, it took me forever to build up my sop playing again, about 18 months or so! So never again - it's Sop or nothing for me!
I'm as mad as a brush (as Naomi will testify to) and that's the essence of any Soprano player!Any comments.....?
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Naomi McFadyen
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:02 pm
- Location: Manchester
- Contact:
Hehehehe, now I have come across this thread and thought I'd liven it up again...
I read through most the posts here, not the really long one though sorry! (I have a short attention span....) lol
I picked up the Sop about 9 weeks ago or so now....
After 2 weeks of playing I went to a 4th section band, warning the MD I'm new to this, not played Sop in a band before obviously, couldn't get too high (top G comfy, anything above weren't too great....)
But I got through it.... and play there full time now
So, 7 weeks on, the upper register is getting there... Top As are amazing in comparison to before, Bbs aren't bad... Bs, there but weak... Got a top C once or twice....
My tone has *always* been good though. The lower register is very good and strong and has a lovely warm tone....
I started off playing on a Yamaha (dunno which model, same as what James was using when he was at Eccles to start off with....) and now I use an old boosey & hawkes sovereign (which is far better than the Yamaha), and despight it being old, it blows very well... I use a yamaha japan 7D4'd mouthpiece, which out of about 3 or 4 that I've tried (including the 17C), it works for me the best....
It certainly hasn't taken MONTHS for me *personally* to "get used" to the Sop.... I do have a tendancy of picking things up very quickly and after 3 or 4 hours a day practising (in hour bits! not constant! lol) the hard work pulled off for my 1st rehearsal....
I blow pretty much everyday still, not as many hours as before though sadly, and have a good practise routine that works well...
LONG notes C down to bottom F#.... LIP SLURS from bottom F# to the C to start..... (playing low notes will help with the upper register, which yes, takes time but it does and will develope nicely... I've felt a big difference now than say, a month ago...)
then off to the pieces for a blow through, rehearse, practise, work on, whatever.... then warm down....
A number of Sop players I've heard in lower section fail to have a nice mid and lower register tone and this is one thing that should be worked on.... no point in playing high nicely to then need to play in the mid register and sound naff!! gotta be better than those Bb cornets and show them what a sop can REALLY do all round!! cos not all brass band music has "high" sop parts.... some composers/arrangers do use the full range.
Agree with James, ur either a Sop player or ur not.... I'd never swap back to Bb again..... hense why I sold my instrument....!
I read through most the posts here, not the really long one though sorry! (I have a short attention span....) lol
I picked up the Sop about 9 weeks ago or so now....
After 2 weeks of playing I went to a 4th section band, warning the MD I'm new to this, not played Sop in a band before obviously, couldn't get too high (top G comfy, anything above weren't too great....)
But I got through it.... and play there full time now
So, 7 weeks on, the upper register is getting there... Top As are amazing in comparison to before, Bbs aren't bad... Bs, there but weak... Got a top C once or twice....
My tone has *always* been good though. The lower register is very good and strong and has a lovely warm tone....
I started off playing on a Yamaha (dunno which model, same as what James was using when he was at Eccles to start off with....) and now I use an old boosey & hawkes sovereign (which is far better than the Yamaha), and despight it being old, it blows very well... I use a yamaha japan 7D4'd mouthpiece, which out of about 3 or 4 that I've tried (including the 17C), it works for me the best....
It certainly hasn't taken MONTHS for me *personally* to "get used" to the Sop.... I do have a tendancy of picking things up very quickly and after 3 or 4 hours a day practising (in hour bits! not constant! lol) the hard work pulled off for my 1st rehearsal....
I blow pretty much everyday still, not as many hours as before though sadly, and have a good practise routine that works well...
LONG notes C down to bottom F#.... LIP SLURS from bottom F# to the C to start..... (playing low notes will help with the upper register, which yes, takes time but it does and will develope nicely... I've felt a big difference now than say, a month ago...)
then off to the pieces for a blow through, rehearse, practise, work on, whatever.... then warm down....
A number of Sop players I've heard in lower section fail to have a nice mid and lower register tone and this is one thing that should be worked on.... no point in playing high nicely to then need to play in the mid register and sound naff!! gotta be better than those Bb cornets and show them what a sop can REALLY do all round!! cos not all brass band music has "high" sop parts.... some composers/arrangers do use the full range.
Agree with James, ur either a Sop player or ur not.... I'd never swap back to Bb again..... hense why I sold my instrument....!
Naomi McFadyen
Partner: Devilish Publishing
Percussion: BT BAND
Partner: Devilish Publishing
Percussion: BT BAND
I started playing brass in 1947 in the RAF. On my discharge in 1954 I joined a local band in Coventry and gradually worked my way up to soprano which I played for about 8-9 yrs until I retired from playing in 1987.
Last year I decided that I missed playing too much and after a lay-off of 20 years, rejoined the same band. After about 6 months on 2nd cornet, I went back onto soprano. A further 6 months on (and one new set of teeth) I am just starting to feel that I justify my position. My range is still limited to A above the stave but I am sure more work and practice will get my old range back.
I still use the Dennis Wick 'S' mouthpiece which I had kept for sentimental reasons.
The point of all this is to tell you-Persevere and you will get there.
Good luck with your brass career.
Last year I decided that I missed playing too much and after a lay-off of 20 years, rejoined the same band. After about 6 months on 2nd cornet, I went back onto soprano. A further 6 months on (and one new set of teeth) I am just starting to feel that I justify my position. My range is still limited to A above the stave but I am sure more work and practice will get my old range back.
I still use the Dennis Wick 'S' mouthpiece which I had kept for sentimental reasons.
The point of all this is to tell you-Persevere and you will get there.
Good luck with your brass career.
Soprano Cornet
I am a relatively new Sop player. In just 6 weeks I was promoted from 2nd to Rep to Solo, then a concert, then to Sop. Playing the sop is a great experience and I would never stop playing it. I still regularly play my Bb cornet too in many bands and also play a Bb and Eb trumpet... so I am familiar with all three!
The sop is a million miles away from the Eb trumpet... playing one in no way improves your performance on the other, however in the higher register the sop is often easier to hit, whereas the Eb trumpet improves stamina in the high register.
Playing sop gives an amazing feeling which I have heard described as the ''icing on the cake''.
The previous sop player in our band told me that it takes an idiot to attempt to play sop but a ingenius idiot to play one well!
I would never give up playing the sop. I play an old Yamaha (now equivilent to the modern Xeno) which our band has had for years and I still use the original mouthpiece that came with it.
Mutes are another important thing with the sop! Bb mutes will work but often provide an untuneful and dull sound! It is a worthy investment to purchase the appropriate Eb/D Trumpet/Cornet mutes, it is a massive improvement!
I was unfortunate to be given a piece containing top C# (F# above the stave for Bb players!) and consistant A's! It takes several months to get used to the sop and even then staying in practice on two different keyed instruments is difficult!
I can now after several months hit my top C's regularly and top B's come with ease! I am unfortunate enough to be wearing braces (or retainers if you are American!) which vastly limits my range and tone however I have been fortunate with these as a friend of mine, who played assistant principal cornet, moved onto tuba after not being able to reach higher than a D (fourth line) on a Bb cornet!
To anyone crazy enough to take on the Sop I wish you the best of luck! It is an amazing experience! Moving from 2nd to Sop in just 6 weeks is a massive leap but it is incredibly rewarding!
Good Luck to all you new Sop players!
The sop is a million miles away from the Eb trumpet... playing one in no way improves your performance on the other, however in the higher register the sop is often easier to hit, whereas the Eb trumpet improves stamina in the high register.
Playing sop gives an amazing feeling which I have heard described as the ''icing on the cake''.
The previous sop player in our band told me that it takes an idiot to attempt to play sop but a ingenius idiot to play one well!
I would never give up playing the sop. I play an old Yamaha (now equivilent to the modern Xeno) which our band has had for years and I still use the original mouthpiece that came with it.
Mutes are another important thing with the sop! Bb mutes will work but often provide an untuneful and dull sound! It is a worthy investment to purchase the appropriate Eb/D Trumpet/Cornet mutes, it is a massive improvement!
I was unfortunate to be given a piece containing top C# (F# above the stave for Bb players!) and consistant A's! It takes several months to get used to the sop and even then staying in practice on two different keyed instruments is difficult!
I can now after several months hit my top C's regularly and top B's come with ease! I am unfortunate enough to be wearing braces (or retainers if you are American!) which vastly limits my range and tone however I have been fortunate with these as a friend of mine, who played assistant principal cornet, moved onto tuba after not being able to reach higher than a D (fourth line) on a Bb cornet!
To anyone crazy enough to take on the Sop I wish you the best of luck! It is an amazing experience! Moving from 2nd to Sop in just 6 weeks is a massive leap but it is incredibly rewarding!
Good Luck to all you new Sop players!
TYBB Sop. 2009+
Soprano Cornet
I am a relatively new Sop player. In just 6 weeks I was promoted from 2nd to Rep to Solo, then a concert, then to Sop. Playing the sop is a great experience and I would never stop playing it. I still regularly play my Bb cornet too in many bands and also play a Bb and Eb trumpet... so I am familiar with all four!
The sop is a million miles away from the Eb trumpet... playing one in no way improves your performance on the other, however in the higher register the sop is often easier to hit, whereas the Eb trumpet improves stamina in the high register.
Playing sop gives an amazing feeling which I have heard described as the ''icing on the cake''.
The previous sop player in our band told me that it takes an idiot to attempt to play sop but a ingenius idiot to play one well!
I would never give up playing the sop. I play an old Yamaha (now equivilent to the modern Xeno) which our band has had for years and I still use the original mouthpiece that came with it.
Mutes are another important thing with the sop! Bb mutes will work but often provide an untuneful and dull sound! It is a worthy investment to purchase the appropriate Eb/D Trumpet/Cornet mutes, it is a massive improvement!
I was unfortunate to be given a piece containing top C# (F# above the stave for Bb players!) and consistant A's! It takes several months to get used to the sop and even then staying in practice on two different keyed instruments is difficult!
I can now after several months hit my top C's regularly and top B's come with ease! I am unfortunate enough to be wearing braces (or retainers if you are American!) which vastly limits my range and tone however I have been fortunate with these as a friend of mine, who played assistant principal cornet, moved onto tuba after not being able to reach higher than a D (fourth line) on a Bb cornet!
To anyone crazy enough to take on the Sop I wish you the best of luck! It is an amazing experience! Moving from 2nd to Sop in just 6 weeks is a massive leap but it is incredibly rewarding!
Good Luck to all you new Sop players!
The sop is a million miles away from the Eb trumpet... playing one in no way improves your performance on the other, however in the higher register the sop is often easier to hit, whereas the Eb trumpet improves stamina in the high register.
Playing sop gives an amazing feeling which I have heard described as the ''icing on the cake''.
The previous sop player in our band told me that it takes an idiot to attempt to play sop but a ingenius idiot to play one well!
I would never give up playing the sop. I play an old Yamaha (now equivilent to the modern Xeno) which our band has had for years and I still use the original mouthpiece that came with it.
Mutes are another important thing with the sop! Bb mutes will work but often provide an untuneful and dull sound! It is a worthy investment to purchase the appropriate Eb/D Trumpet/Cornet mutes, it is a massive improvement!
I was unfortunate to be given a piece containing top C# (F# above the stave for Bb players!) and consistant A's! It takes several months to get used to the sop and even then staying in practice on two different keyed instruments is difficult!
I can now after several months hit my top C's regularly and top B's come with ease! I am unfortunate enough to be wearing braces (or retainers if you are American!) which vastly limits my range and tone however I have been fortunate with these as a friend of mine, who played assistant principal cornet, moved onto tuba after not being able to reach higher than a D (fourth line) on a Bb cornet!
To anyone crazy enough to take on the Sop I wish you the best of luck! It is an amazing experience! Moving from 2nd to Sop in just 6 weeks is a massive leap but it is incredibly rewarding!
Good Luck to all you new Sop players!
TYBB Sop. 2009+
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IrishGuyRick
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:35 pm
Re: Stuggling Soprano
I've been playing sop now for a few year, using a DW S, but I'm also looking to change. From reading the forums, I've heard many things, but best advice is to try a few and make your own decision. Unfortunately in Ireland (just outside Belfast) there is no where to try mouthpieces before you buy like Phil Parker Ltd in London. The shops we have here would have to order the mouthpieces in beforehand, and I am not willing to buy 3-4 of them 
I'm currently looking at the Schilke 11Ax, Schilke 14A4x, Warburton 4sv, Vincent Bach 7e, Vincent Bach 10.5C and Vincent Bach 17C
Any input on either of these would be appreciated
I'm currently looking at the Schilke 11Ax, Schilke 14A4x, Warburton 4sv, Vincent Bach 7e, Vincent Bach 10.5C and Vincent Bach 17C
Any input on either of these would be appreciated
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phil mccann
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am
Re: Stuggling Soprano
I played sop for many years and loved every minute of it..it is an amazing instrument to play. That is the first thing you have to ask yourself
Do I really like soprano and do I want to be a sop player? Bear in mind that being a sop player is NOT just like being a Bflat cornetist only higher..It is an instrument in itself.. the sound is different and you have to work this into the band.. you also need to be a bit of a poser as well because you are exposed a lot of the time so you have to LOVE it and lap it up a bit and rise to the challenge...
Aim to "soar" above the band on those big parts without actually overblowing !
As far as mouthpieces go... it is better to have a very shallow cup with a really fat .heavy rim to cushion your lips.. I actually had a jazz trumpet mouthpiece that had been machined down to fit cornet.. The best source for these mouthpieces is music shops that stock old second hand mouthpieces.. as they dont tend to make "chunky" ones anymore...
Keep practicing and dont fall into the habit of hitting notes slightly under and sliding up to them (a lot of sop players do this).so work on intonation....play hymn tunes to practice long notes.breathing and intonation.. concentrating on the high stuff will only tire your lips out.. develop your Ombachoure by practicing in a comfortable range and the high ones will come naturally after you have built up some stamina..
Hope this is of use to you.. Good Luck and enjoy the soprano..I know I did !
Do I really like soprano and do I want to be a sop player? Bear in mind that being a sop player is NOT just like being a Bflat cornetist only higher..It is an instrument in itself.. the sound is different and you have to work this into the band.. you also need to be a bit of a poser as well because you are exposed a lot of the time so you have to LOVE it and lap it up a bit and rise to the challenge...
Aim to "soar" above the band on those big parts without actually overblowing !
As far as mouthpieces go... it is better to have a very shallow cup with a really fat .heavy rim to cushion your lips.. I actually had a jazz trumpet mouthpiece that had been machined down to fit cornet.. The best source for these mouthpieces is music shops that stock old second hand mouthpieces.. as they dont tend to make "chunky" ones anymore...
Keep practicing and dont fall into the habit of hitting notes slightly under and sliding up to them (a lot of sop players do this).so work on intonation....play hymn tunes to practice long notes.breathing and intonation.. concentrating on the high stuff will only tire your lips out.. develop your Ombachoure by practicing in a comfortable range and the high ones will come naturally after you have built up some stamina..
Hope this is of use to you.. Good Luck and enjoy the soprano..I know I did !
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phil mccann
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am
Re: I Can Relate
why do you want a cornet sound ? I take it that you mean a Bflat cornet sound! its not a Bflat cornet...it is a soprano cornet I know what you mean...you dont want that harsh sound ...well dont blame the cornet or the mouthpiece...just work on itastrolabe wrote:I have been playing sop for about 2 months. I have been struggling with producing a warm sound (cornet sound). I am a trumpet player in Canada and everything I play on the Sop sounds "trumpety". Having been a cornet player as long as you have... do you have any advice on how to warm up my sound.
Any exercises that you might know of would be great.