On the process of composition

Share some tips, what works and what doesn't work?
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njh
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On the process of composition

Post by njh »

I penned this after taking the Band of the Welsh Guards through
"Hymn Without Words" last week. I've tried to be even handed, but
no doubt it'll seem controversial ;-)

-Nigel

----------------------------------------

Each composer will have his or her own process to move from first concept to final work. The trend of these processes has seen a marked change over the last few years with the cheapness and availability of personal computers and recently the growth of aids to the modern composer. Broadly, these fall into two categories:
· Composition software: which helps composers write and check music, e.g. Cubase, Noteworthy Composer;
· Typesetting software: which allows the composer to produce professional quality scores and parts without the expense of a professional typesetter, or to suffer endless rejection notes from publishers who haven’t even opened the envelope of submissions, e.g. Finale, Sibelius.

Many packages straddle both camps. Finale, for example, has play back facilities that help to verify the notes on the score and Noteworthy Composer can produce basic scores.

When talking to some amateurs their over reliance on computers has led me to wonder how they thought Beethoven coped. The advent of these packages has aided the amateur who may not otherwise try their hand at composition. This process should be applauded. But it has happened at what price? Such composers often lack the ability to hear the score in their head, their works are often produced by an iterative process of trial and error and therefore often sound formulaic – that is that they lack the sparkle of originality. Using only computer software will not nurture this needed ability for the budding composer and conductor alike.

When playing a score, a computer has no input to the musical process. It faultlessly and effortlessly plays the music, which I believe removes an important part of the composition process: the feedback from performer to composer. Aside from the technical problems, for example all notes are played perfectly however unsmooth and unrealistic the line, the interpretation of the music has gone.

When a performer runs through a piece of music for the first time, many composers prefer to stand back and listen. If the tempo is wildly different from the marked, a good composer will not blame the conductor. Instead, they ask themselves questions such as “has this interpretation given a new insight that I as a composer have missed?” and “is the interpretation poor because I did not make my expectations clear on the score”. Computers don’t inspire these questions. I have even improved works because a performer’s error has produced better music!

The procedure I recommend has five stages:
1. Create the melodic and harmonic framework at the piano
2. Produce a short score using Noteworthy Composer (does stage 1 work in context?)
3. Produce a long score (orchestrate the work) by hand – feeding back to stages 1 and 2 if I don’t like what I hear in my hear
4. Typeset the score using Finale – playback to check for grammatical errors
5. Rehearse with a band (if you don’t conduct a band and your conductor is not keen on playing music by members of the band, the Internet is a great tool for finding bands that are more helpful – http://www.bandsman.co.uk/bb-links.htm) - feeding back to stage 4 and possibly stage 2.

Do not think that I am a technophobe, or believe that I believe that the older methods are always the best. I have a degree and a post-graduate diploma in Computer Science as well as a degree in Physics and I do not look to the past with rose tinted spectacles. The argument here is that the PC is a useful tool and has its place, provided that it is the tool not the master and is used in addition to the more conventional techniques.

I propose that these five steps are the right compromise between the traditional musician’s ability that must not be lost to the over dependence on modern technology; and opening the fun of composition to new composers who would otherwise lack the formal ear training to have the confidence to compose. The suggestion is that composers of traditional and acoustic music in the second camp consider adopting the Five Steps of Composition discussed here and don’t lose their flair by losing their originality and ability to the computer.
Nigel Horne. Arranger, Clinician, Composer, Typesetter.
NJH Music, Laurel, MD. ICQ#20252325 twitter: @nigelhorne
njh@bandsman.co.uk https://www.bandsman.co.uk
Lloyd
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On the process of composition

Post by Lloyd »

Nigel ... a couple of observations and questions on your "procedure"

>The procedure I recommend has five stages:
>1. Create the melodic and harmonic framework at the piano
>2. Produce a short score using Noteworthy Composer (does stage 1 >work in context?)

Working as I do in Finale, I often combine these two, using the keyboard controller (midi) as my "piano" and supplementing the computer keyboard as an entry device ... not forgetting that what works on piano doesn't necessarily work in the BB!

question: whiy do you use Noteworthy at this stage and Finale later on?

>3. Produce a long score (orchestrate the work) by hand – feeding back >to stages 1 and 2 if I don’t like what I hear in my hear
>4. Typeset the score using Finale – playback to check for grammatical >errors

Again here, I tend to combine these but I work with the sound off so that I'm not unduly influenced by the sound card's limitations (We all know that midi sounds don't even come close to BB sound ... no flugel, no tenor horn, poor tuba sounds, and .. well, you know) ... IMHO, listening to too much "sound card" sound can produce works that are VERY heavy on the bottom end, and given the BBs "bottom heavy" characteristic, the result can be very heavy orchestration. OK if that's what you want, but overwhelming if you intended a lighter sound. And certainly the "grind" of low level intervals is accentuated.

>5. Rehearse with a band (if you don’t conduct a band and your >conductor is not keen on playing music by members of the band, the

God bless the MDs who encourage writers and play their work. There's no substitute for hearing what you've written "live" ... sometimes this can be a very uplifting experience, and sometimes it can be very humbling! In any case, it's a real learning experience. I always have surprises when a piece is played for the first time by the band. Inevitably the band hears things differently than I do. And I carry a BIG eraser!

>Internet is a great tool for finding bands that are more helpful – >http://www.bandsman.co.uk/bb-links.htm) - feeding back to stage 4 and >possibly stage 2.

I envy those who live in places where there are a number of bands within striking distance. For me, the closest band (aside from the one I play in) is about 250 miles away... makes commuting difficult!

A footnote (no pun intended:-)

I'm sure I'm not the only writer who, during the writing process, plays all the parts on an instrument looking for un-musical bits. I remember Stan Kenton's introduction to an orchestra wherein he says, "A good player (he was actually referring to trombonist Vinnie Dean) can take black notes on paper and bring wonderful life to them." (I am most grateful to the players who translate my fly-specs into music. Thank you.)

For me, the greatest compliment I can imagine occurs when a player says, "This guy's charts play themselves." That's when I know that I have successfully translated all that commotion in my head into playable, interesting, and (hopefully) enduring music.

Anyone else care to enter into the "catharsis"

Cheers

Lloyd
E F Lloyd Hiscock
Composer, arranger
Solo Tenor Horn
The Maple Leaf Brass Band
Ottawa, Canada
njh
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Re: On the process of composition

Post by njh »

> question: whiy do you use Noteworthy at this stage and Finale later on?

Because Noteworthy works best as a composition tool and Finale works best
as a typesetting tool. As I explained above, neither tool is defined exactly by these terms,
but they do work best in those modes.

>>4. Typeset the score using Finale – playback to check for grammatical >errors

> Again here, I tend to combine these but I work with the sound off so that I'm not unduly influenced by the sound card's limitations

I want people to be able to hear the sounds in their head, then sound card's limitiations are irrelevant. A composer who is influenced by the sound card's sound makes my point exactly.

> For me, the closest band (aside from the one I play in) is about 250 miles away... makes commuting difficult!

But Dave Druce is an enlightened conductor who is happy to run through his player's works. This is not the norm, certainly not in the UK.

Lloyd
-Nigel
Nigel Horne. Arranger, Clinician, Composer, Typesetter.
NJH Music, Laurel, MD. ICQ#20252325 twitter: @nigelhorne
njh@bandsman.co.uk https://www.bandsman.co.uk
Lloyd
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Re: On the process of composition

Post by Lloyd »

A couple of notes below, Nigel ....

>>>4. Typeset the score using Finale – playback to check for grammatical errors

>> Again here, I tend to combine these but I work with the sound off so that I'm not unduly influenced by the sound card's limitations

>I want people to be able to hear the sounds in their head, then sound card's limitiations are irrelevant. A composer who is influenced by the sound card's sound makes my point exactly.

We're saying the same thing in different ways ... what I meant was I want to write down (enter via Finale) what I hear in my head, not what the sound card puts out ...

> >For me, the closest band (aside from the one I play in) is about 250 miles away... makes commuting difficult!

>But Dave Druce is an enlightened conductor who is happy to run through his player's works. This is not the norm, certainly not in the UK.

Yes, I'm certainly fortunate that way ... Dave is very supportive and takes every opportunity to play and promote new music ... I guess I was just pointing out that there are parts of the world where there are not many bands nearby to choose from, and if one wants to visit them it could be a long haul.

(All of this discussion reminds me that we have to say things very carefully and explicitly in the imperfect world of emails and postings!)

BTW, the band is again playing at the Hannaford Street Silver Band Festival in Toronto in March ... this time we share the stage with The Canadian Staff Band (SA) .... another program of all-Canadian music, mostly pieces by Gabriel Major-Marothy and myself as well as a couple of my new transcription/arrangements of James Gayfer's works.

Cheers

Lloyd
E F Lloyd Hiscock
Composer, arranger
Solo Tenor Horn
The Maple Leaf Brass Band
Ottawa, Canada
njh
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Post by njh »

I've decided to make a few amendments to my statement which better reflect my intentions.

1) Change recommend to use in "The procedure I recommend has five stages"; and
2) Change "consider adopting the Five Steps of Composition discussed here" to "consider adopting their own Five Steps of Composition similar to that discussed here".

These changes don't mean a change of opinion (!) but better convey what I meant to say.

-Nigel
Nigel Horne. Arranger, Clinician, Composer, Typesetter.
NJH Music, Laurel, MD. ICQ#20252325 twitter: @nigelhorne
njh@bandsman.co.uk https://www.bandsman.co.uk
morgon
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trio- with band accomp

Post by morgon »

hi im ed or morgon as my nick says.
i started brass bandingin 2000 with " The Armthorpe Elfield Brass Band" under Hayden Griffiths M B E where i started on the trumpet in the junior band then to flugel to sit in 3rd cornet spot.
he then moved me to 2nd horn where i stayed 4 2 comps which i then went to second Baritone. My second Band was Dinnington colliery where i was given a euphonium to use wilst doing my lessons but was part of the percouission till i moved to Barnsly Building Society to hopefully make 2nd euphonium.



Could any 1 who has doen a brass band score plz help me as i am thinking of writting a score 4 euphonium, cornet, sop and trombone solo with band accomp. any hints and tips wud be more than gr8fully recieved
im here 1 minuet gone the next..... holla if you hear my a** calling PEACE.
j_aaron_stanley
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Post by j_aaron_stanley »

This is a very interesting discussion and I see where Nigel is coming from regarding relying on software too much as a composer. Allow me to share some of my own experiences:

I used to write everything out by hand, then subsequently typeset using Finale. I found Finale very awkward to use, so that was the last step of composing, and the biggest pain. But then I found Sibelius and made the switch in 2000, I think it was. Once I learned Sibelius and saw how easy and fast it was to use the program, I found that is was faster for me to input into Sibelius than to write by hand. And if I needed to change something around or re-orchestrate, it was very easy to edit the score. So my composing method changed, and I began to compose straight into Sibelius, where my scores would gradually come together into a completed composition.

Now, I'm not a very good pianist. My technical skills are quite limited, so I do rely on playback quite a bit as a substitute for playing at the piano. I use this tool, fully realizing that the MIDI sounds I hear will be nothing like what really comes out of a live ensemble, and the balance doesn't even come close to reflecting a true ensemble. I have to report that since using this method, my work has actually improved. And the reason is that I can hear my music back without being limited by my limited keyboard skills. I can take bigger chances, not necessarily being able to hear exactly how it sounds in my head before I write it. This frees me to experiment and try all sorts of things that I wouldn't take the chance on before. It gives me a much better idea of what my work sounds like, so there are fewer surprises when I hear my work. For me, the process of writing isn't about transcribing what's in my head, it's about playing with ideas until I find something compelling.

I would like to think that if I lost my computer that I could still compose at the piano. I'm sure I would do just fine. But using Sibelius makes the whole process so much faster and easier and more enjoyable, that I don't mind being "too attached" to my tool. Every profession benefits from better tools.

Aaron
J. Aaron Stanley
composer | arranger | orchestrator | copyist
Alla Breve Music
Boneman
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Post by Boneman »

A long time in this reply!

Here is my take on the subject.

For many years I just improvised on the piano, just melodies with harmonies developed by luck and not knowledge. I used to get a lot of pleasure in doing this thinking how good it would be to get some of this music down. Not realising at the time that I was so full of melodies!

After the advent of the music writing program (I have used Compsers Pen,Personal Composer,Finale and now Sibelius) my music is finding a way of getting to the listener.

Without it it would still be just a figment of my imagination. Most of the music I write is usually first hit. I let it develop as I write.

Okay it ain't Mozart but I enjoy it! Lucky for me I can get most of it played because of my employment.

The point is that without the software I would be nowhere.
Conn88h
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Re: On the process of composition

Post by Conn88h »

Hello, As an amateur musician and trombonist and being 72 years old, my musical history is quite long, so I will not refer to it in any length.
During the 1960-70s I 'dabbled ' at part writing, including a few trombone quartets, and a few hymn tune arrangements. During the past few years
with the apperance of music notation software I made an attempt at continuing were I left off. I found the notation software very useful, but only as an aid
in the process of arranging. I start with a few ideas that I play on the Piano, and write them on manuscript paper, then input into Sibelius. Moving rapidly to
a completed ( or nearly completed ' score I can hear how it sounds, however, as accurate the Midi player is, it is no substitute for hearing the piece played by
an ensemble, which does not allow for poor intonation and rythmic inaccuracy. In my opinion one of the best features with notation software is the ' Copy & Paste ' this can save much note entry time. There are of course many other features, but too many to mention here, those of you who use it will know.

Best wishes

Nicholas.
Branson
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Re: On the process of composition

Post by Branson »

Is it possible that each composition can evolves by itself?

What I mean is- as the piece begins to evolve, its own character leads the composer along its evolutionary path over-powering predetermined structural concepts?
DavidCBroad
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Re: On the process of composition

Post by DavidCBroad »

I just joined the Forum and though several years old the posts above give me a new perspective on why so many brass band arrangements, especially modern ones are so dire.
A Brass Band is made up of players, who each play a part. There is no mention of anyone ever checking whether the "Parts" actually "Work" All too often they are stilted and awkward dictated by hand span issues on the keyboard, as indeed are many Piano based choral works.
I have done a lot of cut and paste re arranging of Band works for small ensembles, building up from Melody to Bass and then adding Middle and it is surprising how small adaptations can make playing easier, more fluid, or more interesting, Piano's cannot easily modulate a chord up a semitone, move all 3 notes, and back down so it is bang bang bang on the same boring chord, and First Horn plays 33 successive A flats, they need a stand with an Abacus.
I think you should start with a brass instrument and lay down your melody line as a track. as in record it. If you have a counter melody or fill add that as well. If it works write it out with a pen.
Then lay down the Bass until it sounds right record it against the melody, when it works write it out, then start adding middle. Nowhere in the process should a keyboard be allowed in the room.
Then play it back, if it sounds good you have cracked it, arranging is then mixing and matching middle parts among the back row cornets, Horns Baritones and Troms and playing each part to check each part is playable and logical.
I am not playing well enough to use this technique at present but I did an arrangement of "How Great Thou Art," of which I am very proud because when I finally wrote the Piano Part it appears to be completely unplayable, at least not playable by any Pianist with only 8 fingers and 2 thumbs. A Brass Band has twenty "Fingers" by keyboard parameters, so why not use them.
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